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400DF Motors

This motor is for those that like extreme speed, versatility and versatility for Planes and Helis. It can handle higher amps than the 400F and is faster, but takes more amps to provide that extra speed. I use this direct drive in a 48" EPP Wing. But I have plans for it on the Shogun Zoom, geared and a Jet.

 

Specifications

Max Current: 20 Amps - 220 Watts

KV: 3000

Weight: 46 grams

Shaft Diameter: 2.3mm or 3mm

pusher and tractor (puller) formats.

Mount holes: standard 16.5 & 19.5

Direct drive for a bullet or geared in standard 400 gearbox.

Click to view video or discussion thread

 

   

Tech Info

 
 

400DF Motor

3000 KV

 

400DF Motor for Direct Drive, EDF, Gearing or Heli's

Test results for the Wattage PowerFan 400 EDF are completed and look very good.

Click to enlarge

Click for larger view of image

The Powerfan is limited to 25,000 RPM. We ran the 400DH in this setup and it pulled 300 Watts at 32,000 RPM - 11 volts. The efficiency of the fam dropped quickly above 25,000 RPM. So we ran the 400DF in the same powerfan and as you can see from the charts above we get 26,000 RPM at 11 volts, 14 amps, 13 oz's of thrust - 154 Watts.

 

400DF on a Wing: I run this motor in a Wing and it is amazing ! It has similar stats as the Mega 16/15/3 but an ounce lighter. The 16/15/3 also can handle 30 amps and this motor is limited to 20 amps. I recommend a 5.7 x 3 prop for this motor. I've been running a 5x4 apc prop and it pulls around 22 amps, and is amazingly fast. Here is a VIDEO on a 5.5x2.5 APC prop.

Warning - this is a small wing killer without re-enforcement. Also you will need very good cells to run a high pitch prop as you can see from the amp draw posted below.

Click to enlarge

Click for larger view

Customer Aluminum L Bracket:

Some customers have stated that they needed something to mount the motors to Wings. Since I fly wings and know how frustrating it is to have something that is flimsy or bends I had light weight aluminum brackets made up. They are very strong and can not be bent with your hands. The one here is drilled out and the 400DF mounted with a 5.5x3 apc prop.

Size: 3" long, 1 " wide, 1" high 80 thousands (2mm) thick and weight of 28 grams.

 

These brackets require drilling for mounting the motor. I use the AXI mount as a guide to drill the holes. You may wish to shorten the L bracket. It cuts easily with a band saw.

 

Click to enlarge

 

Choose your mount - Front or Rear.

 

Axi Style Mount for front mount of motor, or L bracket for rear mount.

 

 

 

Click to enlarge

Modified L bracket to have slots to hold the zip ties and motor mounted as pusher for a Jet or Wing.

Weight - 60 Grams as shown. (Gold connectors, Bracket, 2 screws and 400DF motor).

Click to enlarge
Vinnie's Projeti - work in progress. 1/64 ply support for rear and L bracket with slots for zip ties. Should be a screaming plane !

 

Nov 1, 09 Update - I flipped the L mount 180 degrees, mounted a 550TH pusher 6x4 apc e 3S, and hit 130 mph. 4S 5x5 was ridiculous speed. Projeti was glassed, with high torque digital servos. I am LOVEING IT !

Email: Vinnie

 

The 400DF pusher model has a clip that keeps the bell from being pulled off so is ideal for pusher or firewall front mount puller. The L style can be used in any method you feel appropriate, but I use it on Wings and Jets to mount in pusher style.

 

400DF on a Slope Soarer: The motor would be a real Hot Liner on a slope soarer !

 

400DF geared: Oh man - I just started testing this and figured I'd gear it with a 3.9 and a large prop with low pitch. It pulled 41 oz's of thrust at 11.1 volts (3S) and 15 amps. I left it running for 5 minutes and it barely got warm. I then put a 11x7 in at produced 32 oz's of thrust on 11.1 volts at 14.5 amps. I didn't hook up a tach yet - but this would be a faster setup - since you trade thrust for speed. I really like this motor in a gearbox and direct drive. I'm hoping for a hat trick on the Heli's.

 

Make sure you're running good cells that can handle 15 amps or higher, depending on how hard you push this puppy. I push the motors higher than they are rated for extended periods of time to test them. The 400DF motor can provide higher RPM than the 400F but at a cost of higher amp draw. I first started running this on a 5x2.5 prop direct drive, and it was extremely fast. I tried a 5x4 prop direct drive and it is scarey fast. This motor would be ideal for a EPP wings, jets, or an extremely wide range of planes geared and any racer that expects very high speed. It will also pull around any park flyer with authority on a gearbox. I imagine it will pull a large gasser as well - but not being a gasser, I can't say for sure.

 

400DF on Heli: I have yet to test it on the Helis. I have guys testing this now and hope to hear back on this soon.

I expect this to be excellent on a Zoom with a 10 or 11 T pinion. More data pending !

400DF Tests by Dr. Kiwi

From Dr. Kiwi:

JustGoFly MMM 400DF - DD speed demon!

Test stand data for the 400DF in direct drive mode.

I had previously tested this motor, for Vinnie at JustGoFly, in geared mode and found it to be very powerful on 3s - almost 40oz thrust at just over 18A with 12x8 GWS HD (3.89:1) and 11x7 GWS HD (3.5:1).

Vinnie suggested that it worked well in DD with 5" props, and that the motor's amp limit might be a lot higher than we had suspected. He had briefly run it at >30A!

Below is the gist of several e-mails to Vinnie - essentially verbatim with just a couple of expletives deleted!

I've just run a few tests on the 400DF with little props - I am going to demand Hazardous Pay and Protection Money - if any of these .... props let go at >20,000rpm, it could be dangerous to my health! With my new stand (obviously facing away) I am pretty safe, but since I am stuck with testing in my TV room I worry about bits bouncing off the walls or going through the (school's) windows!

My PS runs into trouble at ~15A @ 7v, so I can't try any bigger props than these to see how they would be for 2s useage. And it is limited to ~25A @ 11v so I can't push the little .... much harder than I have done - though, I must say, it seems willing enough to be pushed further.

I would think the Jet Boys would be happy with 93.8mph and 101.7mph wouldn't they?

I am very impressed with how smoothly it runs at these speeds, and how cool it remains under fire! These little props may be pushing quite a bit of air through the motor as well as past it. My gut feeling tells me that maybe 250W is getting close to its limit - but then again maybe not!

Both the Zagi and a 5x5 APC E on the 400DF should come in under 30A on 3s and, if so, would probably get you 120mph+ pitch speed - a brave man might try that! The Graupner CAM is a nice prop but at 11v the amps would be >30A - too much I would think.

Click to enlarge
Click to enlarge

 

400DF Motor Info Direct Drive Charts

Prop Diameter (inches) Prop pitch (inches) Prop make & style Voltage at ESC Thrust (g) Thrust (oz) RPM Amps Watts Thrust (g/w) Pitch speed (MPH) Comments
4.25 - cut 2.5 APC 7.2 312 11 16170 9.3 67 4.7 38.3
Cut 5.5x2.5 down to 4.25 inch's to drop amps and thrust, but maintain speed. This prop is modified.
4.25 - cut 2.5 APC 9.6 510 18 20820 14 134 3.8 49.3
4.25 - cut 2.5 APC 11.1 624 22 23400 17.5 194 3.2 55.4
5.5 2.5 APC 7.4 298 10.5 16300 10.3 76 3.9 38.6
Amps remain within tolerable range and a nice fast setup
5.5 2.5 APC 9.6 468 16.5 21000 15.8 152 3.1 49.7
5.5 2.5 APC 11.1 695 24.5 22100 19.6 218 3.2 52.3
5 4 APC 7.2 340 12 15100 13.2 95 3.6 57.2
Amps are a bit high for my liking on 3S, but if you don't run full throttle the whole time this is a nice setup.
5 4 APC 9.6 567 20 19000 21 202 2.8 72
5 4 APC 11.0 666 23.5 21000 24.5 270 2.5 79.5
5.7 3 APC 7.4 369 13 16000 11.5 85 4.3 45.5
Slightly larger prop - not the direction to go with this motor direct drive. Trade prop size for pitch and get speed.
5.7 3 APC 9.6 539 19 20000 17 163 3.3 56.8
5.7 3 APC 11.1 731 25.8 22500 20.8 231 3.2 63.9
5.25 4.75 APC 7.4 340 12 15100 14 104 3.3 67.9
Oh baby - this looks nice - 100+mph on 3S. But amps are too high !
This setup exceeds the recommended power draw. If you run this setup you need to do a cool down run to keep the motor cool. It will run cool with appropriate air flow through the motor while flying. But could heat up on landing without a cooldown run. A Cooldown run is just run at 1/4 throttle for 30 seconds.
5.25 4.75 APC 9.6 490 17.3 19100 20.5 197 2.5 85.9
5.25 4.75 APC 11.1 581 20.5 22300 25.7 285 2 100.3
4.75 4.5 APC CF 7.4 241 8.5 16900 11.3 84 2.9 72
Expensive Carbon Fiber Prop. Highly recommended for 100+ mph. Amps are within good range and very high speed.
4.75 4.5 APC CF 9.6 369 13 20500 15.8 152 2.4 87.4
4.75 4.5 APC CF 11.1 482 17 24000 19.4 215 2.2 102.3
4.75 4.75 APC 7.0 159 5.6 16200 12.85 90 1.8 72.9
5.25x4.75 similar amps, similar speed - hihgher thrust. But this setup exceeds the recommended power draw. This setup exceeds the recommended power draw. If you run this setup you need to do a cool down run to keep the motor cool. It will run cool with appropriate air flow through the motor while flying. But could heat up on landing without a cooldown run. A Cooldown run is just run at 1/4 throttle for 30 seconds.
4.75 4.75 APC 8.0 196 6.9 18300 15.6 125 1.6 82.3
4.75 4.75 APC 9.0 235 8.3 20100 18.75 169 1.4 90.4
4.75 4.75 APC 10.0 272 9.6 21750 21.9 219 1.2 97.8
4.75 4.75 APC 11.0 315 11.1 23100 25.2 277 1.1 103.9
8 4 GWS DD 7.4 598 21.09 10530 18.15 134 4.5 39.9
Dr Kiwi Test

 

 

400DF Motor Info - Geared 400 GWS Gearbox 3.9:1 - WOW !

 

Motor

MMM 400DF: 3.89:1 (70T/20T):

 

 

 

 

 

 

9x5 GWS HD

Volts

Amps

Watts

RPM

Pitch Speed (mph

Thrust (g)

Thrust (oz)

g/W

 

Set on PS: 7v

6.9

3.9

27

4470

21.2

183

6.44

6.78

2S: Very low amp draw, low speed, very low thrust - not recommended.

8v

7.9

4.7

37

5100

24.1

242

8.52

6.54

 

9v

8.8

5.5

48

5700

27

316

11.13

6.58

 

Ambient: 15ºC: 10v

9.8

6.35

62

6330

30

380

13.38

6.13

 

147mAh, 31ºC: 11v

10.8

7.35

79

6930

32.8

460

16.2

5.82

3S: Low amp draw, decent speed, decent thrust - ok for long flight times - not killer though. Very good for 3D.

10x6 GWS HD

Volts

Amps

Watts

RPM

Pitch Speed (mph

Thrust (g)

Thrust (oz)

g/W

 

Set on PS: 7v

6.8

4.8

33

4380

24.9

251

8.84

7.61

2S: Low speed, Low amps - not recommended.

8v

7.8

5.8

45

5010

28.5

328

11.55

7.29

 

9v

8.8

6.9

61

5550

31.5

408

14.47

6.69

 

Ambient: 15ºC: 10v

9.8

8.2

80

6150

34.9

500

17.61

6.25

 

190mAh, 32ºC: 11v

10.7

9.4

101

6690

38

594

20.92

5.88

3S: Decent amp draw, good speed, great thrust - nice setup.

11x7 GWS HD

Volts

Amps

Watts

RPM

Pitch Speed (mph

Thrust (g)

Thrust (oz)

g/W

 

Set on PS: 7v

6.8

6.85

47

4260

28.2

383

13.49

8.15

2S: Low amps, low/med speed, good thrust - 3D setup.

8v

7.7

8.4

65

4800

31.8

495

17.43

7.62

 

9v

8.7

10

87

5310

35.2

604

21.27

6.94

 

motor: 23ºC: 10v

9.7

11.8

114

5850

38.8

703

24.75

6.17

 

256mAh, 44ºC: 11v

10.6

13.9

148

6330

42

876

30.85

5.92

3S: Decent amp draw, Nice speed, Extremely nice thrust - highly recommended !

12x3.8 APC SF

Volts

Amps

Watts

RPM

Pitch Speed (mph

Thrust (g)

Thrust (oz)

g/W

 

Set on PS: 7v

6.8

8.25

56

4140

14.9

482

16.97

8.61

2S: Nice 3D setup ! Very slow - need a little more pitch.

8v

7.7

10.3

79

4590

16.5

625

22.01

7.91

 

9v

8.7

12.8

111

5000

18

796

28.03

7.17

 

Ambient: 6ºC: 10v

9.6

15.6

147

5520

19.9

970

34.16

6.6

 

391mAh, 31ºC: 11v

10.4

17.95

187

5880

21.2

1151

40.53

6.15

3S: Insane thrust, very low speed. 3D on a pig.

12x6 APC E

Volts

Amps

Watts

RPM

Pitch Speed (mph

Thrust (g)

Thrust (oz)

g/W

 

Set on PS: 7v

6.7

9.3

61

4020

22.8

476

16.76

7.8

2S: Another nice 3D setup - traded an amp for 8 mph - I think you'll like this over the 122x3.8 on 2S.

8v

7.6

11.4

86

4500

25.6

622

21.9

7.23

 

9v

8.6

13.55

116

5010

28.5

769

27.08

6.63

 

Ambient: 6ºC: 10v

9.5

15.85

150

5430

30.9

920

32.39

6.13

 

569mAh, 33ºC: 11v

10.4

18.2

199

5850

33.2

1083

38.13

5.44

3S: Insane thrust, much better speed than 12x3.8. Allows the motor to show it's power over the 3.8 pitch at very little cost of amps.

12x8 GWS HD

Volts

Amps

Watts

RPM

Pitch Speed (mph

Thrust (g)

Thrust (oz)

g/W

 

Set on PS: 7v

6.8

9.2

62

4020

30.5

525

18.49

8.47

2S: Low amps, low/med speed, very good thrust - 3D setup on large 3D Plane, or park flyer !

8v

7.7

11.2

87

4560

34.5

650

22.89

7.47

 

9v

8.6

13.5

116

5010

38

787

27.71

6.78

 

ambient: 15ºC: 10v

9.6

15.9

152

5460

41.4

945

33.28

6.22

 

362mAh, 42ºC: 11v

10.5

18.45

193

5880

44.5

1119

39.4

5.8

3S: Baby Baby - Nuclear powered thrust at the cost of some amps - medium speed, very high thrust - very zippy park flyer or large 3D plane

3s PQ 2200: 12.5v

9.7

16

151

5400

40.9

940

33.1

6.23

 

after 150mAh

9.3

15.3

141

-

-

890

31.34

6.31

 

Copyright JustGoFly

400DF Motor Info - Geared 400 GWS Gearbox 3.5:1

Prop  Volts Amps Watts RPM Pitch Speed (mph Thrust (g) Thrust (oz) g/W Comments
9x5 GWS HD  
Set on PS: 7v 6.8 4.5 31 4860 23 221 7.78 7.13 Low Speed, OK thrust, Low Amps - conservative setup for small plane. Would be nice on a 12 oz parkflyer on 3S
8v 7.8 5.5 43 5580 26.4 286 10.07 6.65
9v 8.8 6.45 57 6210 29.4 360 12.68 6.32
Ambient: 11ºC: 10v 9.7 7.55 73 6840 32.4 446 15.71 6.11
226mAh, 35ºC: 11v 10.7 8.8 94 7500 35.5 535 18.84 5.69
10x6 GWS HD  
Set on PS: 7v 6.8 5.7 39 4800 27.3 300 10.56 7.69 Low/Medium speed, good thrust for a 16 oz plane 3S, low amp draw. Conservative setup.
8v 7.8 7.1 55 5430 30.9 387 13.63 7.04
9v 8.7 8.45 74 6060 34.4 477 16.8 6.45
Ambient: 11ºC: 10v 9.7 9.9 96 6630 37.7 581 20.46 6.05
278mAh, 36ºC: 11v 10.6 11.55 123 7230 41.1 696 24.51 5.66
  11.1 12.3 137 7530 42.8 746 26.27 5.45
11x7 GWS HD  
Set on PS: 7v 6.8 8.35 56 4590 30.4 446 15.7 7.96 Medium Speed, Very good thrust decent amp draw. This looks like a very nice setup for upto 2 lb plane and nice speed, but not extremely fast. Amps are good are good.
8v 7.7 10.2 78 5160 34.2 563 19.82 7.22
9v 8.7 12.45 108 5700 37.8 696 24.51 6.44
Ambient: 11ºC: 10v 9.6 14.4 140 6240 41.4 838 29.51 5.99
427mAh, 40ºC: 11v 10.6 16.85 178 6750 44.7 990 34.86 5.56
  11.1 18.4 204 7050 46.7 1088 38.31 5.33