Tech Info

450TH - Customer Testimonial

Received the motors a couple of hours ago I wasted no time fixing the 450th onto my mini xe wing great its not upset the balance at all, I've just come back in took three Li po's and one 1700 8 cell CP battery. All I can say is WOW this is a really great motor I tried 4.5 x 4.1, 5.5 x 2.5, 5.7 x 3, took it easy on the throttle bursts of full power and then about half to two thirds throttle. When I brought it down the motor wasn't even warm to the touch in fact it was cold the controller was normal (its a 30 amp 40 amp 10 seconds) the batteries a little warmer than with the DF but no where near approaching hot. I like the way you can keep it at half throttle and still be moving fast and then give it full and it growls. Oh by the way it performed great on the 8 cell CP battery to be honest I couldn't tell the difference in power and in a dive it was even faster probably because i ts 380g I think the Lippo's is 160g you'd think it would be a little heavy but it fly's great. Attached a snap of my dogs on guard duty Ha..Ha..everything I put down on the garden they take it on them selves to guard it! I'll try and get a good video to you when I can. Bye for now. Dave Roberts

Today I had the 450TH pusher on my MicroJet. By moving the battery pack slightly forward the CG was adjusted OK. At the first launch it hit the belly and didn't take off which was not so unusual for a MicroJet. The second launch was perfect and the MicroJet soared. I could fast role even while climbing out vertically! It was so impressive. I put every other MicroJet at the field (even the one with a more expensive MEGA motor) in the dust. My 450TH equipped MJ was the fastest at the field today. I could cruise around at quarter throttle and fast flight at half throttle. Above half is insanely fast and powerful. I used a 5.5 x 4.0 Master Airscrew propeller, a 1200mah 3S1P 12C lipo pack and a Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC. <See update> I love this 450TH. I'll probably order another one next month and give my 300DF to some other novice MicroJet pilot. Thanks for the nice product and quality service. Tak Ota UPDATE: On the above setup you can see from the charts below the amp draw will exceed the capacity of the Phoenix 25. I don't recommend using Phoenix 25. It's been flying OK but last Sunday I finally melted my Phoenix 25. We knew it was not sufficient for 450TH but I kept procrastinating upgrading the ESC. Vinnie: Folks - I fly my 450TH with our 32 amp ESC with no issue at all. I recommend this ESC for this motor.

ESC Setup

Use Mid or High Timing in your ESC. On airplanes if you have prop stall (Sputter) - this is an indicator of LOW Timing. Some inexpensive ESC's have a fixed setting of Low Timing. These are not going to work well on high speed outrunners. Use Hard Start and High Timing to resolve any start issues. Stalling a prop in the air can burn out a motor.

Low Timing is not recommended. Most ESC manufacturers label Outrunners as Low Timing but this is for low Kv outrunners which are 90% of the outrunners available.

Heli's should stick with soft timing but use Mid or High Timing.
Heli's: Please do not use a linear throttle curve. This would put your hover at about half throttle and this will stress the motor. Use higher RPM and lower pitch.

450TH Heli Setup

Most are running the recommended 13T pinion for the 3S and 2600 RPM on the 450TH in the T-Rex. Your RPM may vary depending on the blades used.

Steph - has reported his test information on the 450TH on 4S (14.8 volts):
4S10T Pinion - Amps and power @ 2800 rpm with 9 deg pitch  as the dpr graph shows @ 70% throttle. 3000 rpm on the same setup but with 10 deg pitch as you see less amps because I am using more volts @ 90% throttle.
4s11T Pinion - is spiking @ over 400 watts @ 3000 rpm temps 22/28 deg c.
My 4s Trex se on the 10t pinion spiking @ 350 watts on a 5 sec climb out is unreal it just keeps on going asking for more but as you will probably know a 5 sec full climb with this power the trex becomes so small in the sky that you have to power down so a 30 sec climb out is impossible unless you tie the trex down this will give you false information on the dpr graph. I use Sab 220 blades on my trex se and align 215 black carbon blades on my trex xl. I am still using the 10t pinion with the 450th on my trex xl and I have just changed the pinion on my trex se to a 9t pinion. I have now tried all the settings on the cc 35 esc and i have been using the high gov high motor timing with good results so i thought i would try the other gov modes High gov high motor timing work very well and the slow start up works perfectly. The low gov with the low motor timing i can't get to work correctly it won't spool up. But the high gov mode low motor timing works very well and the amps stay lower and the slow startup works fine. I don't think i need to run any more than a 10t pinion on the 4s as there is loads of power more than i think anyone would want ? The 4s with the 11t pinion has @ 400 watts too much power the trex's tail become's too powerful in the standard gear ratio i only tried the 11t pinion whilst i am waiting for the 2.3mm shaft 450th to arrive Align do a step down gear for higher rpm range With the 11t pinion on the trex this gives me a option of running a 3s li-po for indoors or a 4s outdoors i like that multi purpose trex The 10t pinion would give me too low rpm for a 3s setup for some reason my trex xl dose not like it under 2000 rpm on climbs it starts nodding might be particular to my trex xl I'll try a 3s on my trex se that has a 10t pinion The 11t pinion on a 4s i think is the max you should go other wise the rpm on the head would be far in excess of 3000 rpm and the efficiency of the system for 3000 rpm head speed would go down because of lowering the throttle range on the TX and things start to heat up Unless the rpm range you are after is 3500 on the head then that's a different story some are running a 3500rpm head speed this i think would be a trex in self destruction mode

450TH Geared in a plane

Rule of thumb is 100 Watts per pound. So the 450TH in a gearbox can be setup for straight up on a 3lb plane. I like to run this on some of my 24 oz planes for extreme thrust. Here is a video of my PT-17 with more power than needed. Most of the video is flown at 1/2 throttle. The climbs are not even full throttle. This setup is 19 Amps 3S WOT on a 3.9 gearing and 12x8 prop. If the video pauses while playing - press pause and wait for it to load a little before playing.

450TH Direct Drive - advice

The 450TH is a total powerhouse but many are pushing the limits of this motor. I have rated this motor at 29 amps, up from 25,and some are running it at 35 and even 40 amps. The charts posted will show you the amps each prop will pull. Where you see 350 Watts in some cases the actual amp draw is higher since my test station power supply can not provide more than 360 Watts. BUT you should not be going near that setup- please do not run with props that exceed 300 Watts. Some new batteries do hold high volts longer and if you set yourself up for over amping the motor - you will fry something. I recommend between a 5.5x2.5 and 4.5x4.1 prop for this motor direct drive. If you know your batteries will drop to 10 volts during operation, then you can run a 5x5. If you don't know how your batteries perform, please stick to the 5.5x2.5. If you run 4S, you'll need to test your setup and stay under 300 Watts. This is a very powerful motor but as such requires comparable ESC and batteries to drive it.

Kyle Stacy - flying at a local funfly - WOW

Kyle is a local heli flyer who at the age of 10 has become clearly the best heli flyer around. He has just this year started competing and right out of the shoot he took fourth place in the RC Universe 2005 Workd Micro Heli Cup. Kyle competed against such stars are Jason Krause, Danny Szabo, Ian Crane and Eric Stolz. I was fortunate enough to catch Kyle running his Trex 450XL with the JustGoFly 450TH brushless motor on a 13T pinion and 3S battery. See more of Kyles videos on his web site KyleRocks.com

T-Rex 450XL with the JustGoFly 450TH and 13T Pinion on 3S

The 13T .5 pitch pinion is currently the most popular setup for the 450TH. It provides 2500-2600 RPM and does not bog. Wide open throttle it should pull 22 amps on a 3S pack. I recommend a 2000+ mah 3S 12C pack or higher for this setup.

T-Rex - 450TH - 14T - new information Oct 17, 05

Now to throw a wrench in the works, seems my French friends who from videos, shown in this note, are using a 14T pinion and really enjoying the power of this motor. They have done thorough analysis of the 400DH, 450F and 450TH and are starting 4S tests, which is prompting a new motor from us. They love the 450TH on a 14T pinion. They like to slightly lower the max pitch and let the motor run at high RPM >2800 RPM to provide excellent torque.Video 1: Video 2:

If you have any questions of the author here is his direct email: Pierre He really likes our 2100 15C LiPo's as well.

When I commented that I thought the PQ1800XP looked more nimble in the video Pierre's response was:

"Actually it is more agile with Tronics. The weight difference is not a problem, the only problem is power to weight ratio. It is more favorable with Tronics. The blades load is also a factor with helis, but you can have less blade load with 320 or 335 blades and tronics. Actually i can do the exact same thing with tronics than with polyquest with more power to throw the heli when i want and add wooping effect. "

Pierre's initial comments:

"After a 7min30 flight, the pack and motor are cool. Imho the 450th is one of the very best motors out there. I was really skeptical at the beginning, but i am getting more and more convinced as I try new combo with packs that can handle better the amps. Tronics are one of the very best packs to go with 450th. I am really considering to buy others."

The batteries are new so he runs them very easily to break them in. He will be running them for longer after he puts them through some cycles.

Based on all that I have learned from Pierre and how advanced flyers like to fly - we have decided to introduce a lower KV motor which is ideal for 4S. This motor will be called the 450FT. If you NEED it right away - email Info@JustGoFly.com We will also be stocking 4S batteries of 15-20C shortly.

Initial advice to T-Rex Heli flyers

Helicopter guys ! Try a 13 T pinion for insane power and 11Th to go easy on your batteries and plenty of power for 3D. This motor is ideal for the T-Rex and even larger heli's. You can use a P25 ESC on an 11T and P35 on 13T. Flying on an 11T pinion will provide 2400 RPM at 95% throttle and max around 20 amps. We are still runing tests and videos on our older 2200 9C packs and the 11T is ideal for this setup. Higher capacity batteries will provide more power and enable you to run a 13T pinion. On the 11T the motor was actually cold on a 90F degree day after running it for 12 minutes on 11T pinion. Try a 12T pinion for a good compromise. Oct 10, 05 - this seems to be suitable for the intermediate T-Rex flyers. If you like slicing up the sky and stressing your blades for extreme 3D - look at the info on the 14T pinion above.

Initial Impressions of the 450TH

This motor is the next step beyond the 400DF. It is the same KV and provides higher amp capability and higher ceiling. If you are running a Jet, or large heli - I highly recommend this motor. The bench tests I ran on this motor show it capable of 28,000 RPM on a 4.1x4.1 prop and remaining 87 to 93 % of the RPM when compared to running without a prop. The span in efficiency is when running 11 to 7 volts respectively. The motor never got hot in all my tests. The method I use to run the tests runs the motor continuously while ranging the volts at wide open throttle between 7 and 11 volts.

The T-Rex will love this motor. If you are looking for over the top performance than this is the motor. If you are looking for very good performance and not to go over 20 amps on your batteries then either tone down the throttle curve on this motor, or use the 400DH .

TEST: I dialed in 25 amps and ran the motor for 10 minutes while monitoring all of the variables, RPM, volts, amps and temperature of the windings. By "Dailed in" I mean that I set my transmitter to full throttle, setup the motor direct drive on a prop and turned up the voltage until the amps hit 25 amps. This resulted in 9 volts - 25 amps on a 5x5 apc prop. This is 225 Watts. The motor remained rock solid and the temperature remained at 99 degrees Fahrenheit for the duration of the test. After ten minutes of continuous running I increased the amps to 28.5, by increasing the voltage, and the temperature went to a very acceptable 106 degrees. This test was using a 5x5 apc prop at 9 volts, which from the charts you can see is providing 13.5 oz's of thrust at close to 20,000 RPM which is a static pitch speed of 94.5 mph.

My top end numbers clip at 32.9 amps at 11 volts - so it's likely those numbers are slightly higher with also higher speed and thrust. While testing this motor - I did not baby it. I let it run at 32.9 amps for a minute before dropping the volts to 10 for the next set of numbers on that prop. In other motors while doing extreme tests like this the motors will increase in temperature very quickly and burn out. This motor held like a rock.

Please be careful - this motor is very powerful !

If you want extreme speed on a Jet - this is the motor for you - but you will need to up the ante on your batteries to something that can handle 350 Watts when used on a prop suitable for extreme speed. If you don't have the batteries for this motor please consider the 400DF motor instead.. Make sure you smile as you pass your Mega Motor buddies. Here is my first flight with the 450TH in a Wing which was slightly warped. The crash I believe was due to the 17.5 oz torque servos - you should use 45+ oz torque servo's when running this motor in a Jet.

Please do not use a prop saver on this motor. The RPM's will subject the prop to severe stress and if it gets misaligned it will first generate load noises - which you should be listening for when flying. Any louder than normal noise should mean for you to land and center the prop or balance the prop. Venturing above 22,000 RPM seems to have an odd effect on the APC props. There seems to be a resonance on the 5x5 at 21,000 RPM. The props need to be perfectly centered and held tight with a collet. You are entering a new stage with this motor and prop maintanence will be very important. Keep a nail file on hand to remove burrs.

This motor is also IDEAL on the TRex Helicopter. 13 tooth pinion (48 pitch) 3.17mm axle. See the reviews on the links on the left of the page.

I run it also in my 2.5 lb AP plane and can go perfectly verticle. Craig has captured his professional AP plane 2.9 lb from the ground to show the power of this motor. I run a 3.89 gearing on a 13x4, Craig prefers a 4.5 and 13x8 prop - WOT is 25 amps. Here's a video of this setup: and picture

Click pictures for larger view

450TH Charts

The good Dr. Kiwi did some independant testing of the 450TH and proved my thrust calculations all LOW. He said I was upto 50% low on my 450TH measurements- ahhhh ! I wonder how this effects the other motor measurements. This explains why those that buy this motor love it - but I think I am scaring those away that are going by the numbers and not the reputation of the motor. I am posting the good Doctors chart and will remeasure and update my chart over the coming weeks.

Dr. Kiwi 450TH measurements (Nov 19, '06)

This updated information shows my numbers as being low on RPM and Thrust. We have made slight improvements to the 450TH - which may account for the improved performance. Dr. Kiwi's charts show thedifference in thrust and RPM - so all new tests of my charts are still pending. Expect higher thrust than is shown in my measurements under the 450TH measurements section.

450TH Measurements